this might just be because I’m ace/not into vore as a primarily sexual thing, but why does the gender/sex of pred and prey seem to be such a massive deal to a lot of people?
this espcecially confuses me when there’s no explicit sexual activity/overtones involved, and it especially bothers me in those scenarios when people are like “male pred/female prey vore only!” because it really seems to perpetuate a female-submissive/male-dominant dynamic that’s really kind of harmful.
That’s why I’m asking this at all really, like- normally when I see a kink thing I don’t get I just go “eh, different strokes for different folks” but this explicit gendering of a scenario where there seems to not only be no need for it but also grounded in harmful gender associations doesn’t sit right with me
i think you have all of the answers you need right in this post, but you just haven’t said it in full yet.
for some people, it could be a sexuality thing that they can’t control, and it just so happens that no other kind of content gets them going or evokes any kind of interest from them.
for some, it could be a way to cope with a variety of different things. maybe a trans/cis man was abused by a woman in their life and developed the whole interest just to be in situations where they feel more in control, or maybe a trans/cis woman finds some kind of safety/comfort in being taken care of by a man. personal lives can have a huge influence on fetishes and kinks.
or a person could just .. plainly be an exclusionist/homophobe/transphobe/etc. in full knowledge of it. honestly, some people are just assholes for asshole reasons, and there’s no way to get around that.
i think that, even if it is rooted in toxicity, traditional gender roles and the idea of masculinity = dominance and femininity = vulnerability most likely play a big part. i don’t think everyone knows about how stigmas like that work, though, or even care how they do, so people just live believing in that ‘natural order of things’ bullshit and get that internalized knowledge ingrained into their kinks as a result of it being a part of their lifestyle.
i dunno, man. people are wild. i’m just tossing my ideas out there.
My first and last response to this is Don’t Police Other People’s Fantasies. The human mind is an enormous place, and we need our imaginations to explore and examine and experiment with our thoughts and sensations and feelings. Society already messes with people by judging and stigmatizing their inner thoughts and feelings, and we all need more tolerance, not less.
It’s important to understand that your fantasy life doesn’t necessarily say anything about who you are outside your head. I know plenty of feminists who are as assertive as they come in the social sphere but who also enjoy submissive fantasies. Some are conflicted about this, but some are perfectly fine with it. I’ve wrestled with my own dominant and submissive desires, and for better or for worse size/vore fantasies have been where I’ve let those feelings play out. It’s taken me a long time to come to peace with these feelings, and I got a lot of help with this process by talking to other size fantasists, particularly those from a diversity of genders, orientations, and backgrounds.
Encouraging inclusivity in kink conversations is the best reason not to add more stigma than people are already dealing with. Examining your feelings and exploring their histories can help you accept and enjoy them, but it takes time. I’m sure many people are walking around with unexamined notions about how they are supposed to feel about their sexuality and their kinks, but no one is helped by shaming them for it. Less judgment and more open conversation is the only solution.
I feel like this response is good, but focuses on the wrong aspect of my original question. I am not trying to “police” anyone’s preferences, only trying to understand whether or not something that seems to me to be grounded in essentialist and harmful modes of thinking actually is.
I know that there’s no way to tell for sure! I certainly don’t intend to go around finding people who have these preferences and demanding answers and justifications from them. I was just trying to open a kind of dialouge with anyone who might have some alternative points of view they want to share with me. This is purely about my own curiosity.
The distinction between fantasy interests and actual real life values is a very important one, I agree. In fact, I’d say it’s essential for any fantasy involving non-fluffy vore or gore or very skewed sub/dom dynamics! But saying “this idea makes me uncomfortable” is not exclusive from the idea of open conversation, and I don’t think discussion of these things coming from a potentially harmful place is encouraging stigma.
Basically, I feel like this kind of discussion is off-track from what I’m actually curious about.
Well, your original post presumed female-submissive/male-dominant scenarios to be necessarily “harmful,” and your follow-up implies that people whose fantasies specify gender roles are engaging in “essentialism.” I don’t doubt that your inquiry is in good faith, but this kind of mischaracterization is an unhelpful start.
Vorefest’s original response was good; there are too many possible reasons for why people have the kinks they have to make any assumptions about them. Many people have desires that are quite “problematic,” both in their origin and in their expression. Some have examined their desires more than others, but I imagine everyone has difficulty integrating their histories and kinks without worrying about trying to accommodate public moralities.
To try to be more responsive: This kinkster’s vore/size fantasies are heavily fraught with sexual desires (I’m skeptical of most “sexual/non-sexual” distinctions), and they reflect the sex-role ideologies and power hierarchies of the society in which I was raised. Because I regard my sexual kinks as a lifelong work of art still in progress, I like to think I’ve had some passionate and creative reactions to my environment. The driving concern of my fantasy life, however, will always be my personal fulfillment and not whether I avoid some public definition of “harm.”
So, yes, when I grab a lady off the street, shrink her down, and drop her onto my twitching tongue, there’s the entire history of sexual politics and domination at work, just as there is when a giantess snatches me up and has her way with me. I would never claim that anyone else does or should share my motives or feelings. YKINMK, as you said. But for those who do share them somewhat, I am grateful to be able to express them here.
Originally posted: 23 Sep 2017